How would she have heard anything Linda said, especially when you take into account that Linda's statement was issued to Susan ?Secondly, how would Pat know how much of a willing participant Linda was ? Member of the Manson Family (born 1949) Add links. Manson wasn't talking. A month before he was even on the case, the police had Charles Manson down as a suspect and things were unravelling.Not only that, they all happened to be dramatic and under the surfaces lurks alternative and more reasonable possibilitiesAll happened to be dramatic ? She got lucky Atkins folded, leaving her the only game in town and she skated. She later agreed to give an interview, in disguise, on CNNs programme Larry King Live. Low level of intelligence: Thinking a heavily funded (by much richer and evil "white men" than Trump) warmongering globalist who overthrows other country with aggressive "intervention" while hiding behind noble motives is a leftist savior. Apparently, NONE was left over for witness research OR a private investigator.On 60 minutes last night they highlighted the story of a Black man who WRONGLY spent 30 years in prison, because HIS lawyer NEVER asked to have the supposed GUN (found in his mother's home) TESTED to see if the GUN bullets MATCHED the ones used on the VICTIM.OOPS, apparently back in the day, BLACK lives and Hippies didn't matter.When Clem had to appear in Court for a "rented" van left in a Death Valley ditch, Irving took HIM to a Salvation Army store for a proper fitting. I embarrass myself when I insult anyone let along groups of people. AND Paul Watkins, who KNEW Charlie INTIMATELY said: "The Black Muslims will prevail in the final Black and White battle. Bobby about mescaline deals and Danny DeCarlo, Pat about not carving WAR on Leno or instructing Leslie to wipe prints {she told the '78 hearing panel there were "15 or 16" things that she would like to correct that Steven Kay got wrong}, Susan about not stabbing Sharon, Leslie about being coerced to "do something," Bruce about the involvement of Tex, Bill Vance & Larry Jones in Shorty's murder and Tex about Susan not stabbing Tate, carving WAR and making Leslie stab Rosemary when she had chickened out ~ none of these things are part of the official record and are not taken on board as being so but the prisoners continue[d] to follow those lines.I'm of the opinion that some of what you get from people who are willing to spill the beans after conviction have to be taken on board if one is going to attempt to understand these people in the aftermath of that point they were at when they committed their crimes. Hearing screams, she ran towards the house and witnessed the killing of Wojciech Frykowski by Watson. I meant that they claim to know the "Real motive" My apologies George. It's no wonder her Mum was in despair.Linda showed amazing strength and guts to testify in the trials that she did but I don't think it's unfair to suggest that when it came to actual life and real living, she was one of the worst adverts for the counterculture and to some extent, gives the establishment their own justification for trying to pick apart the movement of those heady times. Eventually, she. Dreath saidI have for the past many years looked at these crimes from the prospective of how I might have handled the defense. The question is why would Atkins leave Sharon, alive and alone, in the house to take this little stroll? Anything she says next is what I mean by 'unreliable'. The key impact of both crimes is that Conspiracy to Commit Murder and Felony Murder do not require the defendant to actually kill anyone or even be present when someone is murdered to be guilty of murder. And if so, in what context ? He was a talented musician and her initial days at the ranch were filled with LSD, music, stories, dancing around and orgies. Both accused of being racists who will spark a race war. Do you remember last years motive poll ? Both were at the Spahn Ranch near Chatsworth, stronghold of the 35-year-old Manson's nomadic cult of young people. She seems to have done the exact opposite of Linda with her life- which just goes to show you, even in the worst of circumstances- people can make their own fate. I have to thank Matt and Deb as they did the formatting and such due to my questionable computer skills. I wonder if that cabinet they found Manson in was more importantyou know, you had to go through a wardrobe to get there. Overlooking the fact that Atkins sold him out pretty fast and Leslie lined up right behind her to do the same by puttin' on the crazy brainwashed act with Marvin Partwhich Tex actually did to, although failed.We also overlook the fact both Manson and the girls could have easily attempted to put the entire thing on Tex Watson. What appeared peaceful at first to Linda Kasabian turned violent. Now I wonder IF her previously hidden past was NOT fairly typical for many young folks brought up in almost meaningless environments all across America and beyond its borders.AND now look at Donald Trump's legal "draft dodging" exploits and how THEY are going to lead to the EXPOSURE of many notable "closet cowards" amongst our sacred "establishment." She said on that tape she wasn't afraid of getting busted because what she did was right and had to be done. Her background should have had a greater impact. No screaming for it to stop, etc. She, like all of us, was/is a flawed person but not totally on the dark side. In fact, if I recall correctlyI believe she said earlier to her attorneys they went back to the ranch. A major opportunity to show the jury that the star witness is a bloody liar ? Amazing that the defense lawyers never bothered to check on that tidbit during the months and months duration of the trial. He also wasn't interested as long as they had Susan even though it was reluctantly.That all said, have a look at this interesting piece from Col Scott's site 7 years ago and tell me what you think. I remember one of the things that made reading Kasabian's testimony so hard to read were the number of objections and bench conferences. You said Kreneinkle said it. But always focusing on credibility and reliability of a witness can lead to an assumption that if they aren't reliable, that they aren't telling the truth or if they can be shown to be not credible, that whatever they say shouldn't really be entertained. When he meets up with or has contact with Pat, she waives extradition, even though she's told Claude Brown she's scared of Manson finding & killing her. On August 11, 1969, Manson instructed Linda to bring a message to the jailed Sandy Good, Mary Brunner, and Bobby Beausoleil. When really, the main reason most people hate them is that they represent a male patriarchy. It came up from a variety of sources, some of whom weren't even in the Family. Linda least of all- the only price she paid at all was karma. That matters to me, They have a need for HS to be wrong. On a different note: RH- nice post. Granted, the residents could be difficult and particularly nasty to those that were not English {ie, most of them} but they can't all have been 'off' days ! I did not mean to offend and apoligise if I didYou didn't offend at all.I'll stop now. I don't care if it's ten seconds, ten minutes or an hour. If you are saying he is wrongly in jail..As soon as Manson enters the LaBianca house, ties them up, tells them not to worry it is only a robbery he is done as soon as someone is murdered, especially IF he then told the rest to kill them but even if he didn'tThat, my friend, is felony murder and, no, it doesn't matter you, personally, didn't 'intend' to kill anyone. At one point he actually criticizes one of the defence lawyers for calling a witness without having spoken to them.I thought all lawyers know what they want those that matter to hear ! So WHY go the distance. That was some eye opening insight. But NOW, "drunkenness" is considered to be the by-product of a DISEASE. ]THE COURT: Overruled. So here comes the leading question.]Q. And nothing she said could ever be used against her co~defendants.and Leslie lined up right behind her to do the same by puttin' on the crazy brainwashed actYou frequently say this even though it is frequently pointed out to you that this simply isn't the case and demonstrably so. Maybe you should judge what you think based on your own heart and not others. And there are events that logically it seems she had to see that she says she didn't. Atkins did tell the Grand Jury Sharon was still roped up even though Abigail had escaped her ropes. That's 3 times in a week. Sympathy is something that just doesn't make sense to me. And she said, "It's too late." See the events in life of Linda Kasabian in Chronological Order, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCNtPU0K_oo, https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/linda-kasabian-11099.php. Linda married Robert Peasley when she was only sixteen-years-old. It seemed to make little difference because when push came to shove, the jury wanted to know what happened during those two nights of murder and all the sidetracking in the world couldn't get in the way of that. [And Bugliosi leads a reluctant Kasabian to the answer he wants. So it's not as though there isn't some kind of precedent for stuff being revealed after the fact. I think goofy's comments about 'being at war' and 'casualties of war' are interesting. She answered the question. Linda Darlene Kasabian (born Drouin; June 21, 1949) is a former member of the Manson Family. I see the physical evidence not lining up with her testimony, her line of sight doesn't seem to allow her to see everything she has mentioned (I'm working on that one), several of her statements 'just don't make no sense' and many were brought out by leading questions. Charlie went back to where he'd spent most of his life; I don't believe that he wanted to be there but I think he's long been pragmatic about jail. Farflung saidI'm kinda thinkn' there were plenty of precursors, gleefully ignored, or dismissedI think you're right. 'Now is the time for HS' only works if you have three parts: (1.) The general consensus seems to have been that it all happened very quickly.But what do I know ! If Manson was the God to these people and everyone else was disposable. Saint said: The real Losers in the entire saga are the victims and their families. Later, in an effort to give their marriage another chance, she joined Robert Kasabian in Hippie Hangouts of Topanga Canyon, Los Angeles, California where he was friends with Charles Blackbeard Melton. That, of course, rather obviously is directed at Charles Manson. Later, Robert Kasabian contacted Linda and invited her to meet him in Los Angeles. A good example is that Mike McGann interview of Leslie that CieloDrive.com put up. Therefore, as far as I can see, the description of Linda as a hippy, as was understood by those not in sympatico with any countercultural thought, is pretty accurate. But wait a minute Grim, Atkins never mentions this event to the Grand Jury, not a word. At the age of sixteen, she married but it ended in a divorce. My number was never called. St Circumstance saidThey have a need for HS to be wrong. :). You don't agree. Obama just pardoned a woman who was serving "life" in Federal prison for helping a friend to launder some "drug" money.So what can possess an otherwise normal human being to gamble with THEIR entire life on this earth, which is likely to be the REAL heaven. document.write('
'); It Gets Charlie off the hook. That is just an elementary interpretation that most will have.But now, nearly fifty years later, allot of folk want to cut the girls a bit of slack - primarily because they all seem(ed) to have repented and become what most would call "nice people".But you don't find many, if any, willing to cut the two Charles any slack. She participated in terrible crimes, and then left her child with the people who she knew committed them.Then she flipped on those people too.Who could trust Linda? MM, Thank you on the PK- I didn't recall her saying it was but didn't know.I think you have to be a bit careful. document.write(''); The good guys are the victims, the bad guys are the killers. The only possible explanation, is that on that particular day she forgot it back on the ranch and only brought her library card.Give the absolutely weak explanation for her being involved by the prosecutor. There wouldn't have been any need for any of these victims to have been murdered so mercilessly. Why? Why?In the grand scheme of things, with all that was going on, perhaps for those few seconds or minutes none of them envisaged Sharon attempting to escape as she was roped up. The price for everyone else was horrific. And more than any other witness, Linda Kasabian's testimony helped convict Charles "Tex" Watson, Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, Leslie Van Houten, and Charles Manson. The LicenseThe license is a bit of a red herring. Did both sides not do that quite a lot though ? She married twice and had a baby girl, Tanya, with her second husband, Robert Kasabian. Charles Manson and the Killing of Shorty Shea, Charles Manson Behind Bars: The Crazy Antics and Amazing Revelations Of America's Icon of Evil, Charles Manson: The Man Who Killed the 60s, Charles Manson. However, problems between the young couple led Linda and Tanya back to New Hampshire. Dreath saidI agree with your comment about multiple angles. The recent revelation of the close proximity of the apartment where Saladin Nader allegedly lived and the HQ of the Straight Satans is something that cannot be dismissed as pure Coincidence.When one looks at this case, it's almost miraculous that Vincent Bugliosi had a scenario that answered so many important questions and that the answers all seemed to help his case greatly. Sure, I see all that but what are the statistics for us on this site related to those issues? That's the point lol. This might have been tried as a felony murder case like Van Houten III. As long as that question hung in the air unanswered, the jury would have a hard time believing Linda Kasabian and Bugliosi's claim that out of all these people who were fully ready, willing and able to murder for Charles Manson, there was one out of the group who happened to be an angel who thought it was simply a "creepy crawl mission" you're on swampy ground because Linda isn't the only one that didn't know what was going on that night. "The ONLY reason we're all confused is because "Healter Skelter" and "Death to Pigs" were written in blood at the LaBianca crime scene. Grim, I read Col Scott's piece when putting this together because I found something that led me there- might have been googling Fleischman. But now and again one does sort of let something out that is interesting. I think there is a tendency to look at Kasabian's involvement through the lens provided by what we know (or believe or have been told to believe ) from where we sit today. I should have found a way and not gone over the fence and run down the hill. If Fleischmann actually did come up with that plan to knock Atkins out of the last seat in the life boat it was brilliant. There was little to tie Charlie to the crimes. Pat too- and their stories are all the same after all these years.I ask myself these things when telling myself it cant be H/S because everyone in TLB land says so.. St Circumstance saidGeorge and Schreck have spoken to all the people around the killersAnd yet are no more agreed on the motive. Both have different conclusions.I don't know what you get from that but I know what I get from that. At the very least, he was an accessory before the fact in that particular crime. In 1969, the 20 year old Linda Kasabian met Charles Manson at the ranch and immediately fell under his spell. Its been awhile but I think I recall she said she took his wallet. !--CALIFORNIA got rid of the death penalty!!! ]MR.KANAREK: Compound, your Honor, leading and suggestive. var part3 = "Matt at Mansonblog dot com"; Very Well Saidand again. And then there are universal "changes" in "perceptions" that take place over extended time. Funny how his client shortly after turned out to be the best evidence against himWhat's so funny about that ? When Patti Tate asks Good why her sister had to die. I think it's just Pat being nervous and trying to show that they were meant to kill everyone in the house. In Robert's book, there is some discussion on this that is quite interesting.But either way, it's a red herring. About the license, it had to be expired. Nothing new. Perhaps I'm cynical, and she found joy sponge bathing a freshly soiled senior. Of course, I never thought she was an innocent flower child, like VB made her out to be, but he needed her as a witness. Saint, no apology is necessary. All those who oppose us are 'pigs' and to paraphrase a line used in connection with that bastion of capitalism, Wall Street, 'pigs' get eaten.4. Dreath saidWhen you get to the heart of it, it is Bugliosi who says the motive was HS (+ megalomania+ anti-social hatred of the establishment+ lust for murderIt starts as being the other way around, HS being last on the list. [Kanarek realizes something is wrong but whiffs by making too many objections and making them in the wrong order. var part3 = "GW at Mansonblog dot com"; It's not fact. Anniversary thoughts- Leary7 said it best. var part1 = "deb"; HS crawled in 4th out of 6.Personally, I suspect that the ease and commonality with which Helter skelter is dismissed reflects a discomfort with the notion of God communicating, religion and the spiritual realm being taken seriously. How about asking Mr. Peaslee why he wanted a divorce based on her endangering his mental or physical health. Apprently asking why was out of line and a sin. The two traveled the country, enjoying the hippie lifestyle from commune to commune. He wants midnight. Linda Kasabian, born in Biddeford, Maine on June 21, 1949, is a former member of the Charles Manson Family. Could Watson Have Conspired With Suzan LaBerge??? Like any human story, it's the fusion of darkness and light and all those paradoxes and nuances that have kept it so gripping for so long. She swore before a Grand Jury, that under the direction of Charlie Manson, she stabbed actress Sharon Tate to death and had participated in the murder of music teacher Gary Hinman.During her grand jury testimony, Atkins testified that there was no limit to what . During the Tate-LaBianca murders, Kasabian. Ya know- Bugs was never going to use Linda if Susan hadn't flipped on her decision to cooperate.One wonders how he would have spun Sadie if he needed her instead of turning this obvious piece of trash into a little angel??
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